Nuri Al-Maliki News



The disappearance of two billion seven hundred million dollars in the reign of al-Maliki

Squares of liberation / Follow-up



Posted       03/11/2014 11:06 AM



A source in the Finance Committee  parliamentary, it   actually began to investigate the disappearance of two billion seven hundred million dollars from the funds of the Iraqi budget for 2014 was not   constrained by the Ministry of Finance official Bossullac.



  The source said that "the Finance Committee decided to proceed with the disclosure of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of two billion seven hundred million dollars at the time of the government of former Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, has not been shown where to go with the Ministry of Finance did not respond formally on this matter," referring to "   raise the   request to open an investigation to the Presidency of the Parliament after the current end of the holiday. "

  The source added that "the Finance Committee the accountability of the Minister of Finance and the agency in the previous government, purity of net debt, for the disappearance of the money, but Disclaimer   for the answer and after pressing the request of Parliament accountable former prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, as   the assumption by   the ministry bag and the money does not exist ".

He concluded that the source of the "net assured them that the money disappeared during the void period experienced by the ministry after the withdrawal of the Minister of Planning Ali Shukri,   a proxy of the departments and delivered him commissioned by the agency   also by al-Malik

http://www.altahreernews.com/inp/view.asp?ID=23916


PANORAMA: How long will Maliki remain defiant?
(this page is still under construction)

Wednesday, 13 August 2014 1900GMT

Muntaha: Al-Maliki refuses to hand power over in Iraq. Iraq where to?

Welcome to tonight's Panorama, in which we will be discussing:

What are the limits of Al-Maliki's refusal to hand over power in Iraq?

Is it an eventual escalation or negotiating a safe exit for him and some of his supporters?

The most prominent headline for the current events in Iraq: Al-Maliki refuses to hand over power to the designated Prime Minister Haidar Al-Abadi without a decision from the Supreme Court.



He called for demonstrations in Baghdad against what he called the constitutional breach, and he is doing so despite the Iraqi, international, Arab and regional consensus and support for the Iraqi Government.

Based on this, change and the political process in Iraq have become divided between Al-Maliki's intransigence and rebuilding a national State to face the danger of ISIS terrorism and to restore stability to Iraq so that it would play its Arab and regional role. There is no better opportunity than this atmosphere nowadays in light of the internal and external understandings which support the formation of a national salvation government that would include everyone.



The most prominent question to be asked is: To which extent will Al-Maliki refuse the Iraqi consensus amid warnings especially Washington's which warned him against manipulating and dragging the army within the security transition?... Will his actions remain within the limits of the judiciary, or will he sieze to escalate things on the military and security levels? Is the man looking for guarantees and immunity from prosecution after his departure?



Muntaha: How will the new Prime Minister Haidar Al-Abadi deal with Al-Maliki given that he knows him more than anyone else since they participated in the same party until three days ago?



A Man speaking: Once again, we are proceeding with the government.

Outgoing Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki surprises the world again and insists till the last moment

that he will not hand over power without a decision from the Federal Court. It is obvious that the man is maneuvering in the additional time, and imposing his own conditions. he also seeks to hold on to his post until the last moment despite the fact that his closest local and regional allies supported Al-Abbadi and stress on the need for change. In addition, Shiite cleric Ali al-sistani capsized and asserted that he wanted the change, and called on the leaders of Iraq not to stick to their positions in a reference to Al-maliki.



Thus, Iraqi political blocs described Al-maliki's speech, in which he announced his commitment to power as being against the directives of the authority. Al-maliki's tools and the chances of success of his attempts to stay in power has become weak and limited, especially after the American warnings of the manipulation in handing over power. According to observers, Al-maliki will not be able to move the security forces and the army to protect his post due to the seriousness of the situation and because most of the leaders of the army and the security forces announced their loyalty to the president and to the

legitimacy of the state.



In addition, the Shiite alliance supports the change and the selection of Haidar al-Abbadi, thus Al-maliki has no other choice but to call on for some demonstrations and asking his supporters to go out on the streets of Baghdad to support him and defend him, He could also have some armed militias he could resort to, which will be the last card he would play that would practically lead him to [political] suicide.

Some observers say that Al-Maliki is maneuvering until the last minute in order to get the best conditions he could get himself and his supporters for his stepping down from power.



These terms or conditions could very well be related to Al-Maliki's protection from accountability in corruption charges, acts of violence and killings carried out during his term. The US support as well as that of the Western, Arab and regional support for the new prime minister Haidar Al-Abadi, have put Al-Maliki in a tight corner to which Iran's supporting position contributed in reinforcing, as well as the Saudi position which welcomed Al-Abadi's appointment and stressed on the necessity to form an Iraqi government capable of confronting terrorism, and bring Iraq out of its crisis as soon as possible.



Muntaha: To discuss this issue further, we have with us from Amman Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi, head of the Civil Coalition bloc within the Iraqi Parliament, as we will also be joined from London by Dr. Ghassan

al-Attiyah, chairman of the Iraqi Institute for Development and Democracy. Welcome my honorable guests, and I shall be starting with you Mr Mithall my guest from Amman. What is your explanation

to Al-Maliki's insistence in not handing over power except through a Federal Court's ruling, in spite of all Iraqi, regional and international reactions generated by the appointment of Dr. Haidar al-Abbadi as prime minister?



Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi: Good evening everyone, honorable guests, the patriotic and dear guest known for his national and scientific positions, Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah How would you explain Al Maliki's attachment to power and the alibi presented by the Supreme Court of Iraq? I was also a victim of Al Maliki's justice.



The small number of judges were influenced by Al Maliki's orders and his desires when the orders to arrest him were issued. I opposed Al Maliki. There are those who were not included in the elections for irrelevant reasons. In other words, the government is lying and falsely accusing its citizens. It is doing it through some judges. Some of them are present in the Supreme Court. They are the candidates of the Dawa party. I do not want to be unfair to Dawa party. They are Al Maliki's candidates since Al Maliki and his government and his office started preparing for the presidency of the Supreme Court in Iraq.



This is a fan of Al Maliki, and he wants to gain more time. This is the main point. I think that Al Maliki has realized that the terrorist ISIS is around Baghdad and close to Baghdad. I do not blame Al Maliki for this. He hopes for confusion. There is a state of security confusion on the borders of our beloved capital Baghdad. Several movement are referred to and as we got used over all the past years, accusations start to be launched everywhere. Mr. Al-maliki has bankrupted at the political, party and governmental level. He wants to promote that we must be patient a lot. In which era have the provinces of Iraq fallen?



They fell inMr. Al-maliki's era. There are three million people displaced inside Iraq. They suffer the worst conditions. In addition, there are another three millions outside Iraq. We suffer of security, economic, educational and health confusion; while Al-maliki is talking about his achievements and his insistence. It seems that Mr. Al-maliki is marketing his old goods. But he is afraid of opening many files; the most important of which is the financial corruption and giving orders to kill deliberately the Iraqi citizens. Therefore, the situation is really difficult. Even Mr. Al-Abbadi, with all due respect to my brother Haidar Al-Abbadi, neither him nor anybody else can give such immunity to Mr. Al-Maliki or to those involved in the shedding of the blood of Iraqis, steeling the money of Iraq, involving the army and engaging the Iraqi army...

Muntaha: Do you mean Mr. Michel that this claim or this insistence of Mr. Nour Al-maliki is a kind of maneuver to obtain immunity or a safe honorable way out in a way or another? Honorable or not honorable; in fact, Mr. Al-maliki and his family, according to accurate information, transferred funds abroad and certain properties might also transfer abroad. He is in contact with the so-called Iraq's new traders who have millions and billions. He is trying to arrange things abroad.



I honestly hope to find a state in the region that welcomes Al-Maliki and provide him safety and security, because as an Iraqi deputy and as an Iraqi citizen, I honestly say that no one can stop the judiciary and the Iraqi Prosecutor from issuing accurate charges, especially with respect to wasting the public funds and the Iraqi bloodshed and giving orders to kill. This is specifically, regarding the spying which happened to the Iraqi people, violating the Iraqi constitution and acting as if Iraq was part of a region owned by this person or that.



Muntaha: Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah, what do you say? What is your explanation for this insistence of Al-Maliki not to hand over power to his successor Dr. Haidar Al Abadee except by a decision of the Federal Supreme Court? Is this man worried to this extent and concerned and wants to lay the foundations of a constitutional state now in the last moments in Iraq?



Dr. Haidar Al Abadee: Thank you and greetings to the dear brother Mr. Mithal.

If the issue was only limited to a court decision, he wouldn't have cared about all these things, he would only have said I agree, but let's wait for the court's decision, but he started to incite the people, and invent things and talk about the gates of hell, as if Iraq is currently living in heaven. I have reviewed the court's decision that has been issued on August eleven, and the decision explicitly states that Al Maliki doesn't have the largest bloc. When the BBC correspondent asked the representative of the court, on whether they issued a decision around this, his answer was no, I hope that this issue is quickly resolved in court because some of the court members are outside Iraq, in order to resolve matters and conclude this issue.



This has become a purely formal issue. However, the second aspect of Mr. Al-maliki's personality is his stubbornness, because if he hadn't committed that much errors, he would have acted as Al Jaafari did in 2006, when he was asked to step down and he did, and now he enjoys the respect of his party and of the others. On the other hand, Al-maliki is now pretending to be patriotic and aiming at defending Iraq and the independence decision. He knows very well that he was appointed prime minister in 2006 as a result of US and Iranian agreements that are already known and there is no need to comment on this.



Moreover, in 2010 he was appointed prime minister although his list was less than the Iraqi one, and despite that, they agreed on the Iraqi one so that he wins, and this was the result of US and Iranian agreements considering that America is thinking about the withdrawal and does not want the Shiite alliance to be angry or hostile to it, so Al-Maliki became the prime minister. In 2012, the situation deteriorated, as around one hundred seventy two MPs asked to withdraw the confidence from Mr. Al-Maliki. Who saved Al-Maliki? Now it has become well-known that Iran intervened and put pressure on the party of Mr. Jalal Talabani, so he withdrew his deputies, and thus he remained in his post. Al-Maliki all his privileges are the result of these understandings, and now the magic turned against the magician, as he is now no longer wanted by USA and Iran, and this is the major surprise, and the important question or the one that is more important than the issue of Al-Maliki is:



Muntaha: What is the meaning of those new understandings?

Where is Iraq heading to and in what direction?

We will talk about that Dr. Ghassan because it is a very important. In fact I would like to [...] a reasonable part of Panorama for it, but let us concentrate on what is related to Al-Maliki, you know, the man has audience in Iraq. How can he explain himself to that audience or even how can he be convinced of saying, "No to the regional or international interventions in the policy of Iraq." The man knows that he came through such understandings. He was not absolutely an Iraqi option a hundred percent?

I mean, how does he explain himself? Is it only on the basis of stubbornness or what?



First of all, the man is stubborn and that is how Robert Gates said about him and described him. He is a stubborn man and a liar. And the story of the signature -- he deluded President Bush into believing that he signed, but he did not. The ambassador who was sitting next to him said, "Please do not manipulate the president of the United Stated of America." he is popular with this. The question now is: the boys who appeared in the demonstration today, and they are boys; this is a sample on his entire ability.



The demonstration in Firdos Square was all about cars that brought them, and when you see the pictures, you notice this; but in the same square, two kilometers away, there is an area called Al-Karadah Al-Sharkiah where a bombing took place yesterday, but the people of Karrada expressed today their anger towards the government and Al-Maliki by attacking the police that came late, and they considered this police inefficient. According to an observer who descriptively wrote in the press, some police officers took their clothes off and escaped as they fled in Mosul. Now, one of the senior leaders quoting foreign sources informed the Iraqi leaders that the army's loyalty is for the the nation and not for a person.



This prompted Mr. Al-Maliki to call upon the officers and tell them yhat they should stay neutral, and I know that this was concluded with him. Third, its other component is that the area now, when it lost Al-Sistani's confidence and restricted his loss, The viewer must know about that. First, when he said that the prime minister must not be too attached to his position he sent a message. Al Maliki refused to meet with Al Sistani and replied in writing. Al Maliki sent a letter to Al Sistani telling him that he is credited for creating the national list and the Shiite alliance, but he should not intervene in politics.



It is this word in particular that was transferred from Al-Sistani to Mr. Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of Iran. Imagine how they were addressed. It is about a religious figure in Baghdad who is not after a

political position. This is why Iran felt offended since it is against their practices. This competent man capable of creating enemies and unifying them was in power in 2010, and he was supported by the

Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish figures. In a couple of years, he lost most of this support whether coming from the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites, or the Liberals. Most importantly he lost respect in Iraq, a country struggling with a terrorist organization. When we talk about ISIS, in truth, it is unreasonable given his position. He is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces and supervises the Defense Ministry, the security, the police and the intelligence services and yet he still refuses to justify the reasons that let the Iraqi army withdraw and instead starts talking about a plot or conspiracy just like any junior reporter or journalist To tell you the truth, if something like that would happen in any respectable country, this prime minister would have resigned and that is that. This is what Abdel Nasser did after his defeat in the 1967 war, and this is how Abdel Hakim Amir committed suicide after his defeat, however our friend here believes he could do and get away with everything.

In fact, the expression "don't make things worse" applies here, for he is aggravating the problem from his position and despite everything I mentioned, Mr. Al-Abadi stretched his hand towards him and threw him a life jacket when others wanted a different way for Al-Maliki to end his term, and that is when Al-Abadi jumped in and said that the outgoing prime minister is an old companion who he respects [ ] They even offered him the post of vice president or any other post for all that it matters...This deal is still on the table

but as my brother Mithal said earlier, it seems that all those around him who also are involved in that unimaginable and inconceivable amount of corruption and wealth, are also concerned about their own situation, so the best way out of this whole issue is through triggering unrest and turmoil in Iraq, which could rid them of this problem in a better way than to be faced with the success of Mr. Abadi. The last point on the personality of Al-Maliki, he has of efficiency that if he lost, he bows with respect for all the neighboring countries. We understood that his relationship with the Arabs is bad. He even lost with Jordan, which complimented him. And he also lost with Iran, which has the biggest credit on him.

All these are talks. Now, he begins to wear a leaf. I am really against foreign intervention in Iraq. All of Iraq, after the failure of the Iraqi politicians and political elites, is now in the arms of Iran and the United States. The question is now: how to rescue Iraq not how to rescue Al-Maliki?

Muntaha: Yes, but do you confirm, Dr. Ghassan, that the political post as Vice President of the Republic is still available for Al-Maliki until this moment, despite all what happened?

Then...Among the Dawa party with the Dawa Party he still has some numbers among his party. Since he is a prime minister from Dawa party, so they are trying to bridge the rift.

However, if Al-Sistani, the Americans, and the Iranians ignore this, he will have sentenced himself to death, not only politically, but also physically. Yes, does this explain the question of Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi that some, who say that... t is true that there are some militias that take orders from Al-Maliki, I mean there are deputies who are loyal to Al-Maliki, and no to the party, coalition, or anything else, can they be used in the coming period or will he commit suicide if such a thing was conducted? First, we need to remind based on the state of law that more than fifty five deputies voted in favor of the nomination of Dr.

Haidar Al-Abbadi, and thirty eight from the Dawa party, and now more are also supporting Haidar Al-Abadi. Thus, what is left for Mr. Al-Maliki from some female and male deputies supporting him

is a modest number that does not affect the decisions of the Parliament, and this number is also gradually decreasing day after day, and hour after hour. We are getting calls from these ladies and gentlemen asking

to reopen the doors to return and activate the democratic work. We want that Nouri Al-maliki and those who are with him to be deputies representing their beliefs in the Iraqi Council of Representatives, but

Mr. Al-maliki is trying to mix the cards. If he believes in democracy, as he says, he would accept

the decisions of the Iraqi Council of Representatives, because at the end, the nomination of Haidar al-Abbadi is not enough to make him prime minister of Iraq, or of this new government, as this new government should submi to the Iraqi Council of Representatives the names of the ministers and the government's program, and if Mr. Al-maliki is confident of obtaining the majority of the votes in the House of Representatives, why is he doing all this fuss or all this play, that threatens the security

and sovereignty of the citizens and the security and sovereignty of Baghdad?

I think that if Al-maliki and his supporters had this kind of strength, he would wait for the Iraqi Council of Representatives that would topple the government. However, he knows that the majority of the House of Representatives members will vote in favor of Haidar Al-Abbadi if he submitted a clear governmental program that does not mix things. In other words, we do not want an Iraqi government that would cover up for the thieves, or violate the constitution and the law. We want an Iraqi government that cares about the objectives of the citizen and needs of the citizens, not only in Mosul, Salah Al-Din, Anbar, Diyala and parts of Baghdad which are now, in fact, in a tragedy, a great tragedy. And not only in those areas,

but we need, in all areas of Iraq, an Iraqi government that is capable of achieving, and not one that gives eloquent speeches. We want an Iraqi Prime Minister who is not -- with all due respect to you and to the free media -- fond of cameras and eloquent speeches, as if he is talking to a mirror.

If Haidar Al-Abadi introduces those things that way, we will give this government a vote of confidence. We, in the Civil Democratic Alliance, will not vote for a government that includes Mr. Nouri Al-Maliki. We said it frankly, "No third term for Mr. Al-Maliki and no cover for the crimes against Iraq." And constitutional and parliamentary aspects and the way in which confidence is given or not to given the government. I mean, the question that I asked you shortly before is that some people say that the man might escalate more than just waiting for the Federal Supreme Court, more than just political means. He could use, in a way or another, militias or security services which were always under his influence somehow. Is Al-Maliki still able to play with that card? Or is he unable to deal with it? Not at all because the Iraqi militias announced an official political position in which it says that it will not interfere in this regard, will not protect Mr. Al-Maliki, and will not allow its members to be a tool for Mr. Al-Maliki, and therefore there is a new security reality in Baghdad; the tanks are guarding the castle of Al-Maliki, without knowing from who. The militias, which he had imagined will do their role in the street if he lost the political game, actually stood beside the constitution and the law, do not want to interfere, and announced that their mission is to fight ISIS.

This is something great and we praise it. Therefore, Al-Maliki failed even in this regard and became alone now. I really do not wish for this for any Iraqi and specifically the Prime Minister of Iraq despite his crimes and what he did, I want these crimes to either be proved or canceled by neutral and independent Iraqi courts, and not through accusations and only the available information, even if the latter will lead to a major disaster if the people knew about them. On the security level, Al-Maliki cannot depend on militias, but on the military level he can, as what Dr. Ghassan said. The leaders of the Iraqi army gave clear signals and messages to the heads of the blocs, Iraqi Council of Representatives that they will not allow them to intervene. And they have said that they will not succumb to pressure. There was also support on regional and international levels encouraging everyone including the army leaders to face Al-Maliki's authority. Therefore, the process of withdrawing him from Baghdad and others was not a result of his conviction not to drag the army into these matters.

His conviction and information provided that the army will not be subject to these issues, and is now depending on what is known as the elite forces i.e. intelligence forces. I mean, imagine the intelligence forces wearing military uniforms and going out to the street to frighten the citizens. I warn and say a word, Al-Maliki recently in the last two days, assigned a new investigation judge in the intelligence service. He is one of the followers of Al-Maliki. I warn that if the judge did as his predecessor and issued invalid arrest warrants and false charges, beware that this will be subject to the so-called treason. And I warn all who could imagine to manipulate the Iraqi constitution and the Iraqi Council of Representatives. The latter is the highest authority in this state now and His Excellency President protects the constitution. I do not want Al-Maliki to be in such a humiliating position. Now, we want a more important name for Iraq. My brother, wake up and bear the consequences of your actions. I mean there are people who say that if he had accepted to reach a stage of understanding with the other political blocs on the positions that were proposed to him to take as the situation was not in his favor, the situation would have been different.

Muntaha: Allow me my honorable guests and viewers to go to a short break after which we will continue Panorama.

Welcome back. Directly to my guest from London Dr. Ghassan Attiya... Dr. Ghassan, rarely one opinion is agreed upon internationally that Al-maliki has to get out of power, and that Dr. Haidar Alabadee or any person has to receive power in Iraq; the way it took place this time with the exception of the Russian position which we know that a large part of it is just to be against the United States of America.

On the other hand, almost all the world, the neighboring countries and the Arab League, the United States of America and Europe, agreed on the same opinion. This takes us to the topic you tackled, the international agreements, namely the US-Iranian agreement. How could such agreements affect Iraq?

What does this understanding mean in the larger picture?

Madam, this is the central and most important point. During the past ten years American-Iranian understanding was ruling. The new thing is the appearance of the ISIS shifting all balance.

The Islamic state should not have moved to the persecution of minorities in Kurdish regions and Sinjar since this created a big problem and transformed ISIS into a scarecrow. What is worse is that today they are looking at the documents written by Bin Laden upon his arrest saying that an Islamic State must not be declared because it would raise attention and it would be easily suppressed Now Al-Baghdadi has committed the same mistake; now it has become a everybody's target. Besides, earlier, when Syrians killed each others and Iraqis killed each others, the West did not care and left them alone; but when a power occupies one third of Syria, and quarter of Iraq, an area that is larger than Britain's area with a population of seven million in addition to huge agricultural resources, water and oil, all of these things create a threat; it is a threat for the west, for the US, for Iran and the Gulf countries... but each accordind to its context. With respects to Iran, it had dreamt to expand from Tehran to the Mediterranean Sea, but this dream has vanished now; with the control of the Islamic State over Jalula, the organization came closer to the Iranian border which constitutes a great danger on Iran. Consequently,

Iran, which realized the existence of a leadership that is moderate through Rouhani and Zarif and that wants to ease this economic strangulation and to reach a deal with the United States in the nuclear issue.

The opportunity is close. All those factors have combined together. As I learned from Western sources, more than seven American-Iranian meetings discussed the issue of Iraq and the settlements that are

being negotiated. The amazing thing is that it might not be an Iranian-American one, but a regional deal. The Iraqis and the Iraqi politicians -- as a result of the sectarian and ethnic formula -- are not capable of reaching settlements and compromises, Each one has his highest goal that he wants to achieve, and thus, he resorts to extremism. Now, The Arab countries' participation is really through that channel. The nice greeting that came from the Saudi Monarch and the Qatari Prince to the Prime Minister-designate gives a clear signal that it might possibly be a major regional deal in which all the neighboring countries take part,

and moreover, a European, American, British, and French support if it was successful, if it succeeds; only us the Iraqis can fail it, if it succeeded, the west says," we can provide you with weapons, political support with the so-called soft forces, but you, Iraqis, should unite your house and reach a political formula that will make each Iraqi defend the government." In particular, now, there should be a government.

A government is required for the provinces residents' and specifically for the Sunna Arabs to feel that they should defend their government. Consequently, they are now between the hammer and the anvil, between ISIS and Al-Maliki. Now, without their victory- and this is what the US President literally said in an interview- we want a deal without a winner and a loser. Obama criticized the performance of Shiite parties and compared them with the Kurds. This new situation must change. As Iraqis, we can not change it, especially that who control the power can't do that because their language only knows a winner and a loser, whereas the Iranian and Arab role will have a great part in this regard. It is from this platform that I tell you that this might be the first time that the Arab parties and all others are actually acting with a considerable amount of wisdom and reason, and should they ever succeed in holding something like that...And by the way, in 2010 it was the Arabs and the Turks who reunited these forces that

were later called the Iraqi List, however the Arabs grew tired of Iraqis later on, and accused them of not cooperating with each other. Even Iranians, and more particularly Qassim Sulaymani said that the Shiites in Iraq exhausted him.

Muntaha: This new atmosphere prevailing over the country, embodied by ISIS and through its idiocy, provided a golden opportunity. However the question remains whether we could benefit from it. That is the real major challenge. Should this rely on the policy to be adopted by Dr. Haidar Al-Abadi or should the latter's policy include a sign or indication from these countries within the region and across the world on how to run the state in the coming years in order to reach a stable Iraq?

Thank you for this question.

I suggest along with Iraqi figures to announce the first mission for this government, which is to clearly say that this is a transitional government. We want to move Iraq from this war situation to stability

with a decision to stop fighting except fighting the Islamic State. Second, to form a ministerial team along with elements from outside the Ministry who have a social status. Accordingly, he starts a dialogue with all the armed factions without any exception without saying that this is Baathist and this is not, this has killed people; in this case, the ministry would have six months, or a year, or a year and a half to reach Iraqi-Iraqi understandings wich would establish a new national pact. This national pact would address the problems that were raised in Al Anbar and Salah Al Deen and which were even raised by secular, liberal and leftist parties, and people of the south who have some interests, and the people of Basra have great concerns.

These new understandings set basis to a charter that reminds me of the Lebanese National

Charter that was witnessed by the late Beshara Khoury and Riad Solh; to review the constitution until the Baath's eradication; even with respect to wealth; this proposal which I present... You mean to review all...

This can only be achieved under regional sponsorship. .. to review all the previous Iraqi politics because it has not proven so far that it has succeeded after the US occupation until this moment. The Iraqi citizen still suffers and the Iraqi politician is still confused. Following up what was said by Dr. Ghassan Al-ttiyah, I would like to ask you Mr. Mithal, do you see that supporting the Peshmerga with weapons to resist ISIS comes within this context, within the context of this deal provided that Kurdistan region areas shall be kept as they are?

Please allow me only to comment, Of course not each Iraqi politician, deputy, and political bloc has

Arab or Islamic belongings; there are also independent and democrats and civilians, far from such relations. Dr. Ghassan knows this. But this is only to complement what he said and not to object to what he said. On another note, there is a new deal. There are indications that we want to use for the sake of the sovereignty of the Iraqi state and its development. Personally, after having met with those who claim to be in charge of the land in some Iraqi provinces or regions and those who have sent cleat political messages to the government and politicians in Baghdad the government is not willing to negotiate

in such a matter while Al Maliki and his team want escalation even after having welcomed such contact in the beginning. In other words, I do not know what is being concocted with those who claim to represent Arab Sunni nationalistic currents.

They clearly said that they want to take part in the political operation. We recognize the political process and the political Iraqi parties without exceptions. We want to be effective, patriotic, Iraqi tools abiding by the constitution and the parliament unified in the fight against ISIS.

We ask for one condition; a national Iraqi method serving the greater good of citizens without discrimination. We also received many positive signals from Iraqi political parties in the Parliament, however Mr. Al-Maliki's bureau cut this pattern short and did not even want to hear about it, and instead opted for escalating the situation. It is as if the thousands of martyrs from our people in the south is something for Al Maliki's regime to complain about. As for the deal and Kurdistan region, today the terrorist organization ISIS attacks Jalula and is now controlling over some sites and preparing for

a big attack on Khanqeen. This means it approached the Iranian border. This raised the concern in Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and many countries in addition to the international community. Not to mention the fact that ISIS with governmental silence is carrying out genocides on ... This is as of we are talking about a new holocaust in the contemporary history. Eradicating Christians in Baghdad and expelling them from Baghdad was there before ISIS arrives to Mosul.

Christians were killed and churches were bombed in Baghdad before they were exploded in Mosul. All this matter and the government remain silent. It talks about deals in Kurdistan region and arming Iraqi Kurdistan. Kurdistan is a part of the system and part of the Iraqi state. It is a dear part to us.

And the question is, if the Kurds were outside the system, we do not have the right to object, and if the Iraqi Kurds were inside Iraq, then we have to support one another to fight ISIS. I say it frankly, we are not able to fight ISIS in a short period of time.

Muntaha: Thus, we could start thinking about a regional military intelligence system supported internationally this is what I wanted to ask. What I understood from Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah is that there is a mission on the Iraqis now which is to fight ISIS progress.

This is starting from giving weapons Pashmerga, especially because we can not talk about the Iraqi security forces in this moment, until we have a consensus government in Iraq, and perhaps ending with the support of the Free Army in Syria or other parties. What about regional cooperation in eliminating ISIS? I mean it is impossible to leave the Iraqis alone to eliminate ISIS and send them weapons only.

Before the story of ISIS, we were sensitive about information about anything called Iran, anything called Saudi Arabia, or any Arab trends that mistreated the beginning of the new Iraqi state or regime. We now open doors and open minds with truthful hearts, in order to establish a professional cooperation, provided

that such cooperation would be in the issue of ISIS as a 'test' on Iraqi relations with Arab or neighboring Islamic countries. I call for and frankly say that if ISIS wins in Iraq, Iran will not be safe.

That is true and not in any other place.



Muntaha: Forgive me Mr. Al-Alusi, I want to interrupt you for a while. Dr. Ghassan

Al-Attiyah has to leave us, so, allow me to finish with him, and after that I will continue Panorama with you until the end. Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah, there is only a comment on my question which I asked to

Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi, how can we face ISIS? Is it through Iraqi hands and weapons provided to the Iraqis? Or there should be a real regional and international cooperation to fight this terrorist organization?

There are several observations. The first one is that ISIS and the Islamic State have changed a lot of views. The Kurdish side has now realized that it could not stand up to the Islamic State, and therefore, the convictions are increasing now between the Kurdish parties that the solution must be within the Kurdish-Iraqi formula, especially that the United States is not with the idea of separation or division, as well as Iran. Second, many Iraqi Shiites, Sunnis, liberals, leftists and Christians opposition parties are now in Arbil which houses and supports them.

The Kurdish leadership acted with generosity and tolerance. It houses more than one and a half million non-Kurdish Iraqis. It is now the important side in the dialogue with the other armed parties apart from

an Islamic State. It owes them a favor, because it housed many of them, and it can help in that regard.

We come to the other party. When a government is formed which the ordinary Iraqis respect and the Kurds and the sons of Salah Al-Din and Mosul are optimistic about, it will change the equation and eliminate ISIS. In the opinion of the Americans and the non-Americans, that will take a long time, because they are not ready to send soldiers. We, the Iraqis, have to provide soldiers now for this operation.

When such an announcement is made, the sons of Salah Al-Din, Ramadi and Mosul will be encouraged to change their position, and thus, in cooperation with the countries of the region and in cooperation with the United States, it will be possible to rebuild this army to be more professional, and using American, European, or Turkish aircraft in that case would be decisive and it would take a couple of months, but throughout such an operation...What is important in your opinion? Is Iraqi growth and success?

What is important is that a certain mechanism is being envisioned. This is the perception that I wanted to talk about and what is more, the next prime minister should not only be a new person, the absence of Al Maliki has opened a new door. The question is do we as Arabs really waste every single opportunity?

I hope this opportunity does not go to waste.



Muntaha: God willing, Dr. Ghassan Al Atiyat I'd like to thank this channel for giving us this opportunity.

Thank you very much for participating and we will certainly meet again. In coming episodes, we will talk about the Iraqi issues. In the time left, Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi, you might have an answer on what everybody in the Arab world is fearing now [...] a partnership government with real participation will not be an easy; Dr. Haidar Al-Abadi's task will not be easy at all, the man will walk in a mine field. Who is expected to help him leading Iraq to a certain state of stability?

Before fighting Daeish?

Frankly speaking, all the Iraqi political parties declared their support and assistance to Mr. Haider Al-Abadi In forming this government and setting a national programme for it.

I think that this broad internal Iraqi support, in addition to the Iraqi religious authorities in Najaf and other, in this church or that corner in Kurdistan, or in the Arab side, this huge support led to a regional and international support. But the task is really hard, everyone is trying to help and to play a limited role. With regards to the Civil Democratic Alliance, we had a stance not to participate in any dialogues with the Government. Nowadays, thigs have changed, and we want to be an effective and essential part, not in

the Government for a ministerial post, but in setting the program of the Iraqi Government in order to help one another. Haidar Al abadi is walking in a minefield and the biggest and most dangerous is that this state as a result of manipulating the Iraqi budget , the Iraq's budget is empty now.

The Iraqi balance was manipulated. We have another problem, not to mention the military collapse, not to mention the security issue. Let us talk now in a language that can be understood by the Iraqi citizen which many people might ignore. The issue is not just about ISIS, the government, etc. There are hundreds of thousands of students whose fate is unknown in Tikrit University in Salah Al-Din, in Mosul, in Anbar and even in Baghdad. There are hundreds of thousands our students and sons in secondary schools and in

universities. Accurately providing support to the Iraqi citizens. We in Iraq we want to bare responsibility in providing such support to the Iraqi people in order not to be humiliated and smashed again-if , if

forgive me Mr. an example... And there are so many of them in Jordan and Turkey and Syria and other.

We are waiting for the developments on what Al-maliki said or for any on ground reaction. We have to say goodbye now. We will meet again to talk about Iraq certainly in the coming times. Thank you very much, Mr. Mithal Al-alusi, leader of the civil coalition bloc in the Iraqi parliament.

Muntaha: I renew my thanks to Dr. Ghassan Al-attiyah, who was with us from London. This is the end of Panorama, goodbye. Subtitles are automatically translated from Arabic and have not been verified by Al Arabiya News



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PANORAMA: How long will Maliki remain defiant?

Wednesday, 13 August 2014 1900GMT

Muntaha: Al-Maliki refuses to hand power over in Iraq. Iraq where to?

Welcome to tonight's Panorama, in which we will be discussing:

What are the limits of Al-Maliki's refusal to hand over power in Iraq?

Is it an eventual escalation or negotiating a safe exit for him and some of his supporters?

The most prominent headline for the current events in Iraq: Al-Maliki refuses to hand over power to the designated Prime Minister Haidar Al-Abadi without a decision from the Supreme Court.



He called for demonstrations in Baghdad against what he called the constitutional breach, and he is doing so despite the Iraqi, international, Arab and regional consensus and support for the Iraqi Government.

Based on this, change and the political process in Iraq have become divided between Al-Maliki's intransigence and rebuilding a national State to face the danger of ISIS terrorism and to restore stability to Iraq so that it would play its Arab and regional role. There is no better opportunity than this atmosphere nowadays in light of the internal and external understandings which support the formation of a national salvation government that would include everyone.



The most prominent question to be asked is: To which extent will Al-Maliki refuse the Iraqi consensus amid warnings especially Washington's which warned him against manipulating and dragging the army within the security transition?... Will his actions remain within the limits of the judiciary, or will he sieze to escalate things on the military and security levels? Is the man looking for guarantees and immunity from prosecution after his departure?



Muntaha: How will the new Prime Minister Haidar Al-Abadi deal with Al-Maliki given that he knows him more than anyone else since they participated in the same party until three days ago?



A Man speaking: Once again, we are proceeding with the government.

Outgoing Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki surprises the world again and insists till the last moment

that he will not hand over power without a decision from the Federal Court. It is obvious that the man is maneuvering in the additional time, and imposing his own conditions. he also seeks to hold on to his post until the last moment despite the fact that his closest local and regional allies supported Al-Abbadi and stress on the need for change. In addition, Shiite cleric Ali al-sistani capsized and asserted that he wanted the change, and called on the leaders of Iraq not to stick to their positions in a reference to Al-maliki.



Thus, Iraqi political blocs described Al-maliki's speech, in which he announced his commitment to power as being against the directives of the authority. Al-maliki's tools and the chances of success of his attempts to stay in power has become weak and limited, especially after the American warnings of the manipulation in handing over power. According to observers, Al-maliki will not be able to move the security forces and the army to protect his post due to the seriousness of the situation and because most of the leaders of the army and the security forces announced their loyalty to the president and to the

legitimacy of the state.



In addition, the Shiite alliance supports the change and the selection of Haidar al-Abbadi, thus Al-maliki has no other choice but to call on for some demonstrations and asking his supporters to go out on the streets of Baghdad to support him and defend him, He could also have some armed militias he could resort to, which will be the last card he would play that would practically lead him to [political] suicide.

Some observers say that Al-Maliki is maneuvering until the last minute in order to get the best conditions he could get himself and his supporters for his stepping down from power.



These terms or conditions could very well be related to Al-Maliki's protection from accountability in corruption charges, acts of violence and killings carried out during his term. The US support as well as that of the Western, Arab and regional support for the new prime minister Haidar Al-Abadi, have put Al-Maliki in a tight corner to which Iran's supporting position contributed in reinforcing, as well as the Saudi position which welcomed Al-Abadi's appointment and stressed on the necessity to form an Iraqi government capable of confronting terrorism, and bring Iraq out of its crisis as soon as possible.



Muntaha: To discuss this issue further, we have with us from Amman Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi, head of the Civil Coalition bloc within the Iraqi Parliament, as we will also be joined from London by Dr. Ghassan

al-Attiyah, chairman of the Iraqi Institute for Development and Democracy. Welcome my honorable guests, and I shall be starting with you Mr Mithall my guest from Amman. What is your explanation

to Al-Maliki's insistence in not handing over power except through a Federal Court's ruling, in spite of all Iraqi, regional and international reactions generated by the appointment of Dr. Haidar al-Abbadi as prime minister?



Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi: Good evening everyone, honorable guests, the patriotic and dear guest known for his national and scientific positions, Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah How would you explain Al Maliki's attachment to power and the alibi presented by the Supreme Court of Iraq? I was also a victim of Al Maliki's justice.



The small number of judges were influenced by Al Maliki's orders and his desires when the orders to arrest him were issued. I opposed Al Maliki. There are those who were not included in the elections for irrelevant reasons. In other words, the government is lying and falsely accusing its citizens. It is doing it through some judges. Some of them are present in the Supreme Court. They are the candidates of the Dawa party. I do not want to be unfair to Dawa party. They are Al Maliki's candidates since Al Maliki and his government and his office started preparing for the presidency of the Supreme Court in Iraq.



This is a fan of Al Maliki, and he wants to gain more time. This is the main point. I think that Al Maliki has realized that the terrorist ISIS is around Baghdad and close to Baghdad. I do not blame Al Maliki for this. He hopes for confusion. There is a state of security confusion on the borders of our beloved capital Baghdad. Several movement are referred to and as we got used over all the past years, accusations start to be launched everywhere. Mr. Al-maliki has bankrupted at the political, party and governmental level. He wants to promote that we must be patient a lot. In which era have the provinces of Iraq fallen?



They fell inMr. Al-maliki's era. There are three million people displaced inside Iraq. They suffer the worst conditions. In addition, there are another three millions outside Iraq. We suffer of security, economic, educational and health confusion; while Al-maliki is talking about his achievements and his insistence. It seems that Mr. Al-maliki is marketing his old goods. But he is afraid of opening many files; the most important of which is the financial corruption and giving orders to kill deliberately the Iraqi citizens. Therefore, the situation is really difficult. Even Mr. Al-Abbadi, with all due respect to my brother Haidar Al-Abbadi, neither him nor anybody else can give such immunity to Mr. Al-Maliki or to those involved in the shedding of the blood of Iraqis, steeling the money of Iraq, involving the army and engaging the Iraqi army...

Muntaha: Do you mean Mr. Michel that this claim or this insistence of Mr. Nour Al-maliki is a kind of maneuver to obtain immunity or a safe honorable way out in a way or another? Honorable or not honorable; in fact, Mr. Al-maliki and his family, according to accurate information, transferred funds abroad and certain properties might also transfer abroad. He is in contact with the so-called Iraq's new traders who have millions and billions. He is trying to arrange things abroad.



I honestly hope to find a state in the region that welcomes Al-Maliki and provide him safety and security, because as an Iraqi deputy and as an Iraqi citizen, I honestly say that no one can stop the judiciary and the Iraqi Prosecutor from issuing accurate charges, especially with respect to wasting the public funds and the Iraqi bloodshed and giving orders to kill. This is specifically, regarding the spying which happened to the Iraqi people, violating the Iraqi constitution and acting as if Iraq was part of a region owned by this person or that.



Muntaha: Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah, what do you say? What is your explanation for this insistence of Al-Maliki not to hand over power to his successor Dr. Haidar Al Abadee except by a decision of the Federal Supreme Court? Is this man worried to this extent and concerned and wants to lay the foundations of a constitutional state now in the last moments in Iraq?



Dr. Haidar Al Abadee: Thank you and greetings to the dear brother Mr. Mithal.

If the issue was only limited to a court decision, he wouldn't have cared about all these things, he would only have said I agree, but let's wait for the court's decision, but he started to incite the people, and invent things and talk about the gates of hell, as if Iraq is currently living in heaven. I have reviewed the court's decision that has been issued on August eleven, and the decision explicitly states that Al Maliki doesn't have the largest bloc. When the BBC correspondent asked the representative of the court, on whether they issued a decision around this, his answer was no, I hope that this issue is quickly resolved in court because some of the court members are outside Iraq, in order to resolve matters and conclude this issue.



This has become a purely formal issue. However, the second aspect of Mr. Al-maliki's personality is his stubbornness, because if he hadn't committed that much errors, he would have acted as Al Jaafari did in 2006, when he was asked to step down and he did, and now he enjoys the respect of his party and of the others. On the other hand, Al-maliki is now pretending to be patriotic and aiming at defending Iraq and the independence decision. He knows very well that he was appointed prime minister in 2006 as a result of US and Iranian agreements that are already known and there is no need to comment on this.



Moreover, in 2010 he was appointed prime minister although his list was less than the Iraqi one, and despite that, they agreed on the Iraqi one so that he wins, and this was the result of US and Iranian agreements considering that America is thinking about the withdrawal and does not want the Shiite alliance to be angry or hostile to it, so Al-Maliki became the prime minister. In 2012, the situation deteriorated, as around one hundred seventy two MPs asked to withdraw the confidence from Mr. Al-Maliki. Who saved Al-Maliki? Now it has become well-known that Iran intervened and put pressure on the party of Mr. Jalal Talabani, so he withdrew his deputies, and thus he remained in his post. Al-Maliki all his privileges are the result of these understandings, and now the magic turned against the magician, as he is now no longer wanted by USA and Iran, and this is the major surprise, and the important question or the one that is more important than the issue of Al-Maliki is:



Muntaha: What is the meaning of those new understandings?

Where is Iraq heading to and in what direction?

We will talk about that Dr. Ghassan because it is a very important. In fact I would like to [...] a reasonable part of Panorama for it, but let us concentrate on what is related to Al-Maliki, you know, the man has audience in Iraq. How can he explain himself to that audience or even how can he be convinced of saying, "No to the regional or international interventions in the policy of Iraq." The man knows that he came through such understandings. He was not absolutely an Iraqi option a hundred percent?

I mean, how does he explain himself? Is it only on the basis of stubbornness or what?



First of all, the man is stubborn and that is how Robert Gates said about him and described him. He is a stubborn man and a liar. And the story of the signature -- he deluded President Bush into believing that he signed, but he did not. The ambassador who was sitting next to him said, "Please do not manipulate the president of the United Stated of America." he is popular with this. The question now is: the boys who appeared in the demonstration today, and they are boys; this is a sample on his entire ability.



The demonstration in Firdos Square was all about cars that brought them, and when you see the pictures, you notice this; but in the same square, two kilometers away, there is an area called Al-Karadah Al-Sharkiah where a bombing took place yesterday, but the people of Karrada expressed today their anger towards the government and Al-Maliki by attacking the police that came late, and they considered this police inefficient. According to an observer who descriptively wrote in the press, some police officers took their clothes off and escaped as they fled in Mosul. Now, one of the senior leaders quoting foreign sources informed the Iraqi leaders that the army's loyalty is for the the nation and not for a person.



This prompted Mr. Al-Maliki to call upon the officers and tell them yhat they should stay neutral, and I know that this was concluded with him. Third, its other component is that the area now, when it lost Al-Sistani's confidence and restricted his loss, The viewer must know about that. First, when he said that the prime minister must not be too attached to his position he sent a message. Al Maliki refused to meet with Al Sistani and replied in writing. Al Maliki sent a letter to Al Sistani telling him that he is credited for creating the national list and the Shiite alliance, but he should not intervene in politics.



It is this word in particular that was transferred from Al-Sistani to Mr. Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of Iran. Imagine how they were addressed. It is about a religious figure in Baghdad who is not after a

political position. This is why Iran felt offended since it is against their practices. This competent man capable of creating enemies and unifying them was in power in 2010, and he was supported by the

Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish figures. In a couple of years, he lost most of this support whether coming from the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites, or the Liberals. Most importantly he lost respect in Iraq, a country struggling with a terrorist organization. When we talk about ISIS, in truth, it is unreasonable given his position. He is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces and supervises the Defense Ministry, the security, the police and the intelligence services and yet he still refuses to justify the reasons that let the Iraqi army withdraw and instead starts talking about a plot or conspiracy just like any junior reporter or journalist To tell you the truth, if something like that would happen in any respectable country, this prime minister would have resigned and that is that. This is what Abdel Nasser did after his defeat in the 1967 war, and this is how Abdel Hakim Amir committed suicide after his defeat, however our friend here believes he could do and get away with everything.

In fact, the expression "don't make things worse" applies here, for he is aggravating the problem from his position and despite everything I mentioned, Mr. Al-Abadi stretched his hand towards him and threw him a life jacket when others wanted a different way for Al-Maliki to end his term, and that is when Al-Abadi jumped in and said that the outgoing prime minister is an old companion who he respects [ ] They even offered him the post of vice president or any other post for all that it matters...This deal is still on the table

but as my brother Mithal said earlier, it seems that all those around him who also are involved in that unimaginable and inconceivable amount of corruption and wealth, are also concerned about their own situation, so the best way out of this whole issue is through triggering unrest and turmoil in Iraq, which could rid them of this problem in a better way than to be faced with the success of Mr. Abadi. The last point on the personality of Al-Maliki, he has of efficiency that if he lost, he bows with respect for all the neighboring countries. We understood that his relationship with the Arabs is bad. He even lost with Jordan, which complimented him. And he also lost with Iran, which has the biggest credit on him.

All these are talks. Now, he begins to wear a leaf. I am really against foreign intervention in Iraq. All of Iraq, after the failure of the Iraqi politicians and political elites, is now in the arms of Iran and the United States. The question is now: how to rescue Iraq not how to rescue Al-Maliki?

Muntaha: Yes, but do you confirm, Dr. Ghassan, that the political post as Vice President of the Republic is still available for Al-Maliki until this moment, despite all what happened?

Then...Among the Dawa party with the Dawa Party he still has some numbers among his party. Since he is a prime minister from Dawa party, so they are trying to bridge the rift.

However, if Al-Sistani, the Americans, and the Iranians ignore this, he will have sentenced himself to death, not only politically, but also physically. Yes, does this explain the question of Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi that some, who say that... t is true that there are some militias that take orders from Al-Maliki, I mean there are deputies who are loyal to Al-Maliki, and no to the party, coalition, or anything else, can they be used in the coming period or will he commit suicide if such a thing was conducted? First, we need to remind based on the state of law that more than fifty five deputies voted in favor of the nomination of Dr.

Haidar Al-Abbadi, and thirty eight from the Dawa party, and now more are also supporting Haidar Al-Abadi. Thus, what is left for Mr. Al-Maliki from some female and male deputies supporting him

is a modest number that does not affect the decisions of the Parliament, and this number is also gradually decreasing day after day, and hour after hour. We are getting calls from these ladies and gentlemen asking

to reopen the doors to return and activate the democratic work. We want that Nouri Al-maliki and those who are with him to be deputies representing their beliefs in the Iraqi Council of Representatives, but

Mr. Al-maliki is trying to mix the cards. If he believes in democracy, as he says, he would accept

the decisions of the Iraqi Council of Representatives, because at the end, the nomination of Haidar al-Abbadi is not enough to make him prime minister of Iraq, or of this new government, as this new government should submi to the Iraqi Council of Representatives the names of the ministers and the government's program, and if Mr. Al-maliki is confident of obtaining the majority of the votes in the House of Representatives, why is he doing all this fuss or all this play, that threatens the security

and sovereignty of the citizens and the security and sovereignty of Baghdad?

I think that if Al-maliki and his supporters had this kind of strength, he would wait for the Iraqi Council of Representatives that would topple the government. However, he knows that the majority of the House of Representatives members will vote in favor of Haidar Al-Abbadi if he submitted a clear governmental program that does not mix things. In other words, we do not want an Iraqi government that would cover up for the thieves, or violate the constitution and the law. We want an Iraqi government that cares about the objectives of the citizen and needs of the citizens, not only in Mosul, Salah Al-Din, Anbar, Diyala and parts of Baghdad which are now, in fact, in a tragedy, a great tragedy. And not only in those areas,

but we need, in all areas of Iraq, an Iraqi government that is capable of achieving, and not one that gives eloquent speeches. We want an Iraqi Prime Minister who is not -- with all due respect to you and to the free media -- fond of cameras and eloquent speeches, as if he is talking to a mirror.

If Haidar Al-Abadi introduces those things that way, we will give this government a vote of confidence. We, in the Civil Democratic Alliance, will not vote for a government that includes Mr. Nouri Al-Maliki. We said it frankly, "No third term for Mr. Al-Maliki and no cover for the crimes against Iraq." And constitutional and parliamentary aspects and the way in which confidence is given or not to given the government. I mean, the question that I asked you shortly before is that some people say that the man might escalate more than just waiting for the Federal Supreme Court, more than just political means. He could use, in a way or another, militias or security services which were always under his influence somehow. Is Al-Maliki still able to play with that card? Or is he unable to deal with it? Not at all because the Iraqi militias announced an official political position in which it says that it will not interfere in this regard, will not protect Mr. Al-Maliki, and will not allow its members to be a tool for Mr. Al-Maliki, and therefore there is a new security reality in Baghdad; the tanks are guarding the castle of Al-Maliki, without knowing from who. The militias, which he had imagined will do their role in the street if he lost the political game, actually stood beside the constitution and the law, do not want to interfere, and announced that their mission is to fight ISIS.

This is something great and we praise it. Therefore, Al-Maliki failed even in this regard and became alone now. I really do not wish for this for any Iraqi and specifically the Prime Minister of Iraq despite his crimes and what he did, I want these crimes to either be proved or canceled by neutral and independent Iraqi courts, and not through accusations and only the available information, even if the latter will lead to a major disaster if the people knew about them. On the security level, Al-Maliki cannot depend on militias, but on the military level he can, as what Dr. Ghassan said. The leaders of the Iraqi army gave clear signals and messages to the heads of the blocs, Iraqi Council of Representatives that they will not allow them to intervene. And they have said that they will not succumb to pressure. There was also support on regional and international levels encouraging everyone including the army leaders to face Al-Maliki's authority. Therefore, the process of withdrawing him from Baghdad and others was not a result of his conviction not to drag the army into these matters.

His conviction and information provided that the army will not be subject to these issues, and is now depending on what is known as the elite forces i.e. intelligence forces. I mean, imagine the intelligence forces wearing military uniforms and going out to the street to frighten the citizens. I warn and say a word, Al-Maliki recently in the last two days, assigned a new investigation judge in the intelligence service. He is one of the followers of Al-Maliki. I warn that if the judge did as his predecessor and issued invalid arrest warrants and false charges, beware that this will be subject to the so-called treason. And I warn all who could imagine to manipulate the Iraqi constitution and the Iraqi Council of Representatives. The latter is the highest authority in this state now and His Excellency President protects the constitution. I do not want Al-Maliki to be in such a humiliating position. Now, we want a more important name for Iraq. My brother, wake up and bear the consequences of your actions. I mean there are people who say that if he had accepted to reach a stage of understanding with the other political blocs on the positions that were proposed to him to take as the situation was not in his favor, the situation would have been different.

Muntaha: Allow me my honorable guests and viewers to go to a short break after which we will continue Panorama.

Welcome back. Directly to my guest from London Dr. Ghassan Attiya... Dr. Ghassan, rarely one opinion is agreed upon internationally that Al-maliki has to get out of power, and that Dr. Haidar Alabadee or any person has to receive power in Iraq; the way it took place this time with the exception of the Russian position which we know that a large part of it is just to be against the United States of America.

On the other hand, almost all the world, the neighboring countries and the Arab League, the United States of America and Europe, agreed on the same opinion. This takes us to the topic you tackled, the international agreements, namely the US-Iranian agreement. How could such agreements affect Iraq?

What does this understanding mean in the larger picture?

Madam, this is the central and most important point. During the past ten years American-Iranian understanding was ruling. The new thing is the appearance of the ISIS shifting all balance.

The Islamic state should not have moved to the persecution of minorities in Kurdish regions and Sinjar since this created a big problem and transformed ISIS into a scarecrow. What is worse is that today they are looking at the documents written by Bin Laden upon his arrest saying that an Islamic State must not be declared because it would raise attention and it would be easily suppressed Now Al-Baghdadi has committed the same mistake; now it has become a everybody's target. Besides, earlier, when Syrians killed each others and Iraqis killed each others, the West did not care and left them alone; but when a power occupies one third of Syria, and quarter of Iraq, an area that is larger than Britain's area with a population of seven million in addition to huge agricultural resources, water and oil, all of these things create a threat; it is a threat for the west, for the US, for Iran and the Gulf countries... but each accordind to its context. With respects to Iran, it had dreamt to expand from Tehran to the Mediterranean Sea, but this dream has vanished now; with the control of the Islamic State over Jalula, the organization came closer to the Iranian border which constitutes a great danger on Iran. Consequently,

Iran, which realized the existence of a leadership that is moderate through Rouhani and Zarif and that wants to ease this economic strangulation and to reach a deal with the United States in the nuclear issue.

The opportunity is close. All those factors have combined together. As I learned from Western sources, more than seven American-Iranian meetings discussed the issue of Iraq and the settlements that are

being negotiated. The amazing thing is that it might not be an Iranian-American one, but a regional deal. The Iraqis and the Iraqi politicians -- as a result of the sectarian and ethnic formula -- are not capable of reaching settlements and compromises, Each one has his highest goal that he wants to achieve, and thus, he resorts to extremism. Now, The Arab countries' participation is really through that channel. The nice greeting that came from the Saudi Monarch and the Qatari Prince to the Prime Minister-designate gives a clear signal that it might possibly be a major regional deal in which all the neighboring countries take part,

and moreover, a European, American, British, and French support if it was successful, if it succeeds; only us the Iraqis can fail it, if it succeeded, the west says," we can provide you with weapons, political support with the so-called soft forces, but you, Iraqis, should unite your house and reach a political formula that will make each Iraqi defend the government." In particular, now, there should be a government.

A government is required for the provinces residents' and specifically for the Sunna Arabs to feel that they should defend their government. Consequently, they are now between the hammer and the anvil, between ISIS and Al-Maliki. Now, without their victory- and this is what the US President literally said in an interview- we want a deal without a winner and a loser. Obama criticized the performance of Shiite parties and compared them with the Kurds. This new situation must change. As Iraqis, we can not change it, especially that who control the power can't do that because their language only knows a winner and a loser, whereas the Iranian and Arab role will have a great part in this regard. It is from this platform that I tell you that this might be the first time that the Arab parties and all others are actually acting with a considerable amount of wisdom and reason, and should they ever succeed in holding something like that...And by the way, in 2010 it was the Arabs and the Turks who reunited these forces that

were later called the Iraqi List, however the Arabs grew tired of Iraqis later on, and accused them of not cooperating with each other. Even Iranians, and more particularly Qassim Sulaymani said that the Shiites in Iraq exhausted him.

Muntaha: This new atmosphere prevailing over the country, embodied by ISIS and through its idiocy, provided a golden opportunity. However the question remains whether we could benefit from it. That is the real major challenge. Should this rely on the policy to be adopted by Dr. Haidar Al-Abadi or should the latter's policy include a sign or indication from these countries within the region and across the world on how to run the state in the coming years in order to reach a stable Iraq?

Thank you for this question.

I suggest along with Iraqi figures to announce the first mission for this government, which is to clearly say that this is a transitional government. We want to move Iraq from this war situation to stability

with a decision to stop fighting except fighting the Islamic State. Second, to form a ministerial team along with elements from outside the Ministry who have a social status. Accordingly, he starts a dialogue with all the armed factions without any exception without saying that this is Baathist and this is not, this has killed people; in this case, the ministry would have six months, or a year, or a year and a half to reach Iraqi-Iraqi understandings wich would establish a new national pact. This national pact would address the problems that were raised in Al Anbar and Salah Al Deen and which were even raised by secular, liberal and leftist parties, and people of the south who have some interests, and the people of Basra have great concerns.

These new understandings set basis to a charter that reminds me of the Lebanese National

Charter that was witnessed by the late Beshara Khoury and Riad Solh; to review the constitution until the Baath's eradication; even with respect to wealth; this proposal which I present... You mean to review all...

This can only be achieved under regional sponsorship. .. to review all the previous Iraqi politics because it has not proven so far that it has succeeded after the US occupation until this moment. The Iraqi citizen still suffers and the Iraqi politician is still confused. Following up what was said by Dr. Ghassan Al-ttiyah, I would like to ask you Mr. Mithal, do you see that supporting the Peshmerga with weapons to resist ISIS comes within this context, within the context of this deal provided that Kurdistan region areas shall be kept as they are?

Please allow me only to comment, Of course not each Iraqi politician, deputy, and political bloc has

Arab or Islamic belongings; there are also independent and democrats and civilians, far from such relations. Dr. Ghassan knows this. But this is only to complement what he said and not to object to what he said. On another note, there is a new deal. There are indications that we want to use for the sake of the sovereignty of the Iraqi state and its development. Personally, after having met with those who claim to be in charge of the land in some Iraqi provinces or regions and those who have sent cleat political messages to the government and politicians in Baghdad the government is not willing to negotiate

in such a matter while Al Maliki and his team want escalation even after having welcomed such contact in the beginning. In other words, I do not know what is being concocted with those who claim to represent Arab Sunni nationalistic currents.

They clearly said that they want to take part in the political operation. We recognize the political process and the political Iraqi parties without exceptions. We want to be effective, patriotic, Iraqi tools abiding by the constitution and the parliament unified in the fight against ISIS.

We ask for one condition; a national Iraqi method serving the greater good of citizens without discrimination. We also received many positive signals from Iraqi political parties in the Parliament, however Mr. Al-Maliki's bureau cut this pattern short and did not even want to hear about it, and instead opted for escalating the situation. It is as if the thousands of martyrs from our people in the south is something for Al Maliki's regime to complain about. As for the deal and Kurdistan region, today the terrorist organization ISIS attacks Jalula and is now controlling over some sites and preparing for

a big attack on Khanqeen. This means it approached the Iranian border. This raised the concern in Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and many countries in addition to the international community. Not to mention the fact that ISIS with governmental silence is carrying out genocides on ... This is as of we are talking about a new holocaust in the contemporary history. Eradicating Christians in Baghdad and expelling them from Baghdad was there before ISIS arrives to Mosul.

Christians were killed and churches were bombed in Baghdad before they were exploded in Mosul. All this matter and the government remain silent. It talks about deals in Kurdistan region and arming Iraqi Kurdistan. Kurdistan is a part of the system and part of the Iraqi state. It is a dear part to us.

And the question is, if the Kurds were outside the system, we do not have the right to object, and if the Iraqi Kurds were inside Iraq, then we have to support one another to fight ISIS. I say it frankly, we are not able to fight ISIS in a short period of time.

Muntaha: Thus, we could start thinking about a regional military intelligence system supported internationally this is what I wanted to ask. What I understood from Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah is that there is a mission on the Iraqis now which is to fight ISIS progress.

This is starting from giving weapons Pashmerga, especially because we can not talk about the Iraqi security forces in this moment, until we have a consensus government in Iraq, and perhaps ending with the support of the Free Army in Syria or other parties. What about regional cooperation in eliminating ISIS? I mean it is impossible to leave the Iraqis alone to eliminate ISIS and send them weapons only.

Before the story of ISIS, we were sensitive about information about anything called Iran, anything called Saudi Arabia, or any Arab trends that mistreated the beginning of the new Iraqi state or regime. We now open doors and open minds with truthful hearts, in order to establish a professional cooperation, provided

that such cooperation would be in the issue of ISIS as a 'test' on Iraqi relations with Arab or neighboring Islamic countries. I call for and frankly say that if ISIS wins in Iraq, Iran will not be safe.

That is true and not in any other place.



Muntaha: Forgive me Mr. Al-Alusi, I want to interrupt you for a while. Dr. Ghassan

Al-Attiyah has to leave us, so, allow me to finish with him, and after that I will continue Panorama with you until the end. Dr. Ghassan Al-Attiyah, there is only a comment on my question which I asked to

Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi, how can we face ISIS? Is it through Iraqi hands and weapons provided to the Iraqis? Or there should be a real regional and international cooperation to fight this terrorist organization?

There are several observations. The first one is that ISIS and the Islamic State have changed a lot of views. The Kurdish side has now realized that it could not stand up to the Islamic State, and therefore, the convictions are increasing now between the Kurdish parties that the solution must be within the Kurdish-Iraqi formula, especially that the United States is not with the idea of separation or division, as well as Iran. Second, many Iraqi Shiites, Sunnis, liberals, leftists and Christians opposition parties are now in Arbil which houses and supports them.

The Kurdish leadership acted with generosity and tolerance. It houses more than one and a half million non-Kurdish Iraqis. It is now the important side in the dialogue with the other armed parties apart from

an Islamic State. It owes them a favor, because it housed many of them, and it can help in that regard.

We come to the other party. When a government is formed which the ordinary Iraqis respect and the Kurds and the sons of Salah Al-Din and Mosul are optimistic about, it will change the equation and eliminate ISIS. In the opinion of the Americans and the non-Americans, that will take a long time, because they are not ready to send soldiers. We, the Iraqis, have to provide soldiers now for this operation.

When such an announcement is made, the sons of Salah Al-Din, Ramadi and Mosul will be encouraged to change their position, and thus, in cooperation with the countries of the region and in cooperation with the United States, it will be possible to rebuild this army to be more professional, and using American, European, or Turkish aircraft in that case would be decisive and it would take a couple of months, but throughout such an operation...What is important in your opinion? Is Iraqi growth and success?

What is important is that a certain mechanism is being envisioned. This is the perception that I wanted to talk about and what is more, the next prime minister should not only be a new person, the absence of Al Maliki has opened a new door. The question is do we as Arabs really waste every single opportunity?

I hope this opportunity does not go to waste.



Muntaha: God willing, Dr. Ghassan Al Atiyat I'd like to thank this channel for giving us this opportunity.

Thank you very much for participating and we will certainly meet again. In coming episodes, we will talk about the Iraqi issues. In the time left, Mr. Mithal Al-Alusi, you might have an answer on what everybody in the Arab world is fearing now [...] a partnership government with real participation will not be an easy; Dr. Haidar Al-Abadi's task will not be easy at all, the man will walk in a mine field. Who is expected to help him leading Iraq to a certain state of stability?

Before fighting Daeish?

Frankly speaking, all the Iraqi political parties declared their support and assistance to Mr. Haider Al-Abadi In forming this government and setting a national programme for it.

I think that this broad internal Iraqi support, in addition to the Iraqi religious authorities in Najaf and other, in this church or that corner in Kurdistan, or in the Arab side, this huge support led to a regional and international support. But the task is really hard, everyone is trying to help and to play a limited role. With regards to the Civil Democratic Alliance, we had a stance not to participate in any dialogues with the Government. Nowadays, thigs have changed, and we want to be an effective and essential part, not in

the Government for a ministerial post, but in setting the program of the Iraqi Government in order to help one another. Haidar Al abadi is walking in a minefield and the biggest and most dangerous is that this state as a result of manipulating the Iraqi budget , the Iraq's budget is empty now.

The Iraqi balance was manipulated. We have another problem, not to mention the military collapse, not to mention the security issue. Let us talk now in a language that can be understood by the Iraqi citizen which many people might ignore. The issue is not just about ISIS, the government, etc. There are hundreds of thousands of students whose fate is unknown in Tikrit University in Salah Al-Din, in Mosul, in Anbar and even in Baghdad. There are hundreds of thousands our students and sons in secondary schools and in

universities. Accurately providing support to the Iraqi citizens. We in Iraq we want to bare responsibility in providing such support to the Iraqi people in order not to be humiliated and smashed again-if , if

forgive me Mr. an example... And there are so many of them in Jordan and Turkey and Syria and other.

We are waiting for the developments on what Al-maliki said or for any on ground reaction. We have to say goodbye now. We will meet again to talk about Iraq certainly in the coming times. Thank you very much, Mr. Mithal Al-alusi, leader of the civil coalition bloc in the Iraqi parliament.

Muntaha: I renew my thanks to Dr. Ghassan Al-attiyah, who was with us from London. This is the end of Panorama, goodbye. Subtitles are automatically translated from Arabic and have not been verified by Al Arabiya News

 

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