Al-Arabyia News 2014 political commentary

Al-Arabyia News

PANORAMA: Will Iraq name a new prime minister after recent political developments?

Monday, 28 July 2014


Muntaha: Welcome to tonight's Panorama, in which we discuss:

After selecting two new presidents for the state and the parliament in Iraq, will the Iraqis have a new head of government to succeed Al-Maliki?

Welcome to the battle of the three presidencies in Iraq. As president for the republic and a  parliament speaker have been elected, will Iraq have a new prime minister who succeeds Al-Maliki as the majority of Iraqis and behind them the international community demand?

The battle of the presidency of the government in the National Iraqi Alliance's court, which is considered to have the largest number of votes in the parliament. It has the right to nominate a candidate despite the attempt of the State of Law headed by Al-Maliki to defect from the coalition and to demand to have the right to name the candidate. The step was described as that Al-Maliki insists on assuming the prime minister post for the third time, despite the controversy and the demands for removing him. Because that would be an opportunity to unite Iraq in the face of the risks, and the most prominent of which is division and the ISIS organization.

What do the ongoing consultations inside the Shiite entity to put up an alternative to Al-Maliki include, which will lead to new figures as regards the leaders of the first class?

And what will the repercussions be if Al-Maliki insists on running for the post?

Consequently, will the Iraqis succeed in the test of unifying their ranks?

After a Caesarean section, the national forces union bloc, which represents the Sunni components in Iraq, reached a consensus on naming Salim Al-Jabouri as a candidate to be the speaker of the parliament after the withdrawal of Osama Al-Nujaifi, in the framework of a deal that is supposed to push some forces of the Shiite National Alliance to cling to their refusal of Al-Maliki and the search for an alternative to him.

The fierceness of the competition intensified clearly within the Kurdish alliance, especially the National Union, led by the president of the republic Jalal Talabani. That lead them to resort to an internal voting before heading to the parliament with one candidate, and the matters ended in favor of Fuad Masum to be next the Kurdish president of Iraq.

We can say that the Iraqi political forces respected the constitutional timing in the election of the president of the republic and the parliament so far. But the information related to the naming of a prime minister, is pointing to the possibility of restoring the experience of 2010 and the possibility that the debate continues within the Shiite alliance and with other components, on the nominated figure for this post for a period of time that may not be short.

The dilemma that the Shiite alliance is facing is represented by Al-maliki's insistence until now, to run for a third term, and rejecting all the calls to step down, issued in an indirect way from the religious authority and direct and sharp by the components of the National Alliance of its two poles Al-Hakim and Sadr.

In addition to the international stances that consider Al-maliki a part and supporting element in deepening the crisis in Iraq and pushing it towards further division. Everyone knows that Al-Maliki's policies are very sectarian and create divisions, and will cause a reaction sooner or later, but we did not want to interfere in the internal affairs, but now the country and its unity have collapsed, and the Iraqis have to rebuild it through a national government.

The Iraqi political forces with all its components is pushing towards the completion of the change that took place in the presidency of the republic, and the parliament to reach the premiership, but it might be facing the challenge of facing Al-maliki with regards to the vote inside the alliance for him, or for him to have the right to nominate an alternative candidate.Especially after that the President of the Republic and the Chairman of the Parliament refused his request to consider the National Alliance, which he belongs to, the biggest bloc.

To discuss this issue, we host with us from Erbil Mr. Tariq Jawhar, the media adviser to the Kurdistan parliament and from Amman, Dr. Haidar Saiid, adviser of the Iraqi Center for Strategic Studies, and from Amman also Mr. Falah Al-naqib former Iraqi interior minister.

Welcome to my honorable guests, allow me to start with Dr. Haidar Saiid, my guest from Amman. Dr. Haidar, we are talking a little bit about the constitutional position of outgoing Prime Minister Nouri Al-maliki in adhering to run for a third term, knowing that he knows the reactions towards this.

There are some members of the state of law and not all of them, support his nomination, so what is the constitutionality of this position?

Dr. Haidar Saiid: First, thank you Muntaha for hosting me, and Eid Mubarak. Thank you, same to you. I wish all the audience of Al Arabiya a blessed Eid, and I congratulate Mr. Tareq Falah, the question was about the constitutional aspect of Article 76 of the constitution which stipulates ... this is the key to our discussion and it will help us  understand the constitutional framework, the article says that the President shall assign the representative of the the largest Parliamentary bloc, Al Maliki, the Prime Minister, has to deal at least with the debate that has been going on over the past few days. He is now behaving in line with the constitution but before we get to the political issue, let me clarify the constitutional aspect of it all regarding the State of Law.

The prime minister Al Maliki wants to achieve a state of law coalition and not national coalition and not a Shiite bloc which includes all Shiite political groups ... Al Ahrar and Muwatin, he wants to present it as the main bloc in the Parliament, and consequently the president of the republic should designate a candidate for the state of law regardless of whether it was Al Maliki or someone other than Al Maliki.

From the documents that have been published during the past few days, we can see that there is a signed document regarding an agreement between all Shiite parties saying that there is a bigger coalition inside the Parliament, which is the national coalition, and the State of Law Coalition is part of this larger entity, which is the national coalition, and this document was presented to the Parliament.

Now inside the State of Law in particular, is failure to recognize the document signed between the Shiite political groups and some of these statements even claimed that this document is forged and inauthentic, and hence there is no coalition except for the Coalition of the State of Law.

This is the constitutional part.

But I believe that the political aspect is more complicated, Prime Minister Maliki is fully aware that most Iraqi and Kurdish political parties and Sunni ones, and half of the Shiite political groups do not agree with Maliki being Prime Minister for the third term. Furthermore, even the influential forces in the political process in Iraq, whether inside Iraq and specifically, I mean Najaf's reference or from outside Iraq.

Let's talk about Iran and the United States specifically it does not tend to the survival of Al-Maliki as prime minister for a third term.

What does Al-Maliki want?

Al-Maliki wants to impose specifically on the Shiite political parties, first: He thinks that it is until now.

Yes, there are leaks that Iran's stance is not with Al-Maliki remaining as the prime minister. Iran does not want to anger the reference of Najaf and Najaf's reference has a clear stance, therefore, to the last moment it is supposed that Iran can be by his side in light of what is happening in the region. First, ISIS challenge exceeded Iraq's border. There is a conflict in Syria and so on.

On the other hand, Al-Maliki imagines that in case he was assigned or even a nominee by the state of law, by the president of the republic to form a government, the other political parties will lead to the political dynamic logic, I mean, let's talk frankly, he believes that a part of the Kurds might form a coalition with him in case this happened, and here he is speaking about the Kurdish national union in specific. He also believes that a large group of Sunnis can be with him if he were charged.

Thus, I believe logic will prevail after his appointment; he might receive one hundred sixty five seats, and thus win the confidence in the House of Representatives.

Muntaha: Are all these only hopes and perceptions for Al-Maliki, or is there real facts that show that a group of Kurds or Sunnis will support Al-Maliki if he were a nominee for the prime minister post?

Dr. Haidar Saiid: I think this is a mixture of hopes and fears, first, I think that it is strange how Al-Maliki is hanging on to the prime minister post, yes, I am saying that Al-Maliki, the state of law, received twenty nine percent of the seats in the House of Representatives.

However, democracy says it is the rule of the majority thus 71% did not vote for the state of law, I mean, the primitive logic in the definition of democracy talks about the rule of the majority, the majority here is the 71%, and I think that this strange insistence needs explanation, there are those who believe that Al-maliki fears that in the event that he does not stay for a third term as prime minister, some judicial files will be raised against him, I mean, he has linked his personal fate to the premiership, knowing that there are guarantees, even the proposed scenarios for the stage after Al-maliki.

There are assurances for Al-maliki, one of the scenarios is that Al-maliki will remain in sovereign position that gives him immunity.

He could be vice-president of the republic, for example. Or even the issue of his personal fate, might have been discussed in some political circles that think about the stage after Al-maliki, so I think it is a mixture and it is not necessary that his reading is the correct reading I mean, he is talking about the National Kurdistan Union, and yesterday Al-Maliki was in the city of Sulaymaniyah, and visited former President Jalal Talabani to congratulate him for his return.

However, in the light of the rapid development in Kurdistan around the idea of the referendum and the independence, it would not be necessarily, even under the Iranian pressure that the National Union, would go on in naming Al-maliki.

The main problem now inside the National Alliance, which is the representative of the different Shiite blocs in Iraq, who were the largest bloc in the parliament and among which the state of law bloc was present.

Muntaha: Before we go into specific details around this subject, let me ask Mr. Tariq Jawhar, my guest from Irbil, and the media adviser to the Kurdistan parliament, is the belief to which Dr. Haidar Saiid referred to expresses Al-Maliki's belief that the National Alliance could stand with it, and that this would lead in the success of Al Maliki in attracting the National Alliance, excuse me, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, if his name was proposed? Does it come out of nowhere or would the Kurds have perceptions that things can be solved politically under the leadership of Al-maliki?

Mr. Tariq Jawhar: Yes, good evening and my sincere congratulations on the occasion of Eid Al-fitr to all Al Arabiya viewers and the Iraqi people and we hope that this year would be a year of happiness, peace and prosperity in Iraq, With regard to this issue, I believe that this is perhaps the most difficult situation that the political phase is going through after elections because the election of the speaker of the house and the election of the president were not a political obstacle among the components or among political blocs.

The only problem and the dispute was on the new prime minister and the renewal of a third term. This is the point of dispute among all the Iraqi components.

I think that the honorable guest spoke properly about each stage that passed until now.

I think that the Kurdistan side will have a coherent stance and any party is betting on the differences within the Kurdish house.

I think that it will be a loosing bet because the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan.

Yes, It has a policy, a point of view, but it does not link issues of personal attitudes, but the Patriotic Union according to what we have heard from its speech to the media that it deals with the political program of political blocs, and of the candidate who will enter competition for the next prime minister post.

In Kurdistan side, everyone agrees to deal with one stance toward Baghdad and the direction of the next candidate because the fate of the political process, the executive authority has all powers and authorities and it will be in the hands of the next prime minister position.

It is the most important position in Iraq that's why everyone deals carefully with this position and deal realistically they deal with the program and the ideology [..]  and the intellect of the person who fills the position of the prime minister, whether it will be Mr. Al-Maliki or any other person.

Muntaha: Well, we want to talk about Al-Maliki specifically and not other persons. What new can he put forward before the various parties in Iraq that makes him attract votes in the parliament?

Mr. Tariq Jawhar: I think that this is attributed to the National Alliance, because they are the ones concerned, and this problem concerns them first and then concerns the Iraqi parties.

Everyone awaits a final position from the National Alliance as all parties were waiting for the Kurdistan Alliance to name a candidate for the presidency of the republic, as well as everyone was waiting for the Sunni House to agree on a candidate for the post of the speaker of the parliament, therefore according to the agreement and the political consensus between the major political blocs, as happened in previous years, we expect that the bloc and Shiite house will agree on a candidate.

This is up to them and after that, if the Shiite house does not agree on a candidate, I think that this will help other  parties, including the Kurds, Sunnis and other parties, to reach an agreement and accept this candidate because as we have seen, the other Sunni parties did not object on the Kurdish candidate and so did the Shiite house.

The Kurds and Shiites did not oppose on the Sunni candidate to become the speaker of the parliament. Therefore, we are not dealing with a person, but instead with a program, but in general the visit of Mr. Al-Maliki to His Excellency President Talabani in Sulaymaniyah aimed at checking on his health condition and welcomed his return to the country and recovery.

There was no room for a political deal, and those who are betting on the dispute between the Kurdish house, I think will lose as there is no dispute regarding the national rights for Kurds with Baghdad.

Everyone agrees on the need for the next government should be a government of national partnership, with the participation of all the components, without the marginalizing of Sunnis or Shiites or marginalizing other components, and that the next government should first impose security and stability and fight terrorism in a quick manner and then address the problems and the outstanding issues with the Kurdistan region, these files that have been pending for ten years and the government of Al-Maliki was not able to find solutions for, but on the contrary, these files became worse and more complex, because of the creation of new crises from Mr. Al-maliki with the Kurdistan region and even with the Sunnis brothers, who also felt marginalized during the two terms of Mr. Al-maliki, and even in the Shiite house. Everyone began to direct strong criticism towards Mr. Al-maliki and his policies. Sure, the way of his rule was not in line and was not at the level of a statesman.

Muntaha: And here I move to Mr. Falah al-naqib my guest from Amman. When we talk about a government of national partnership, it is not the demand of the Kurds alone, it is the demand of all Iraqis, the demand of the Sunni component. When we talk about security and stability, it is the demand of the young and the senior in Iraq, people want to live in Iraq after all these years and all this suffering. And when we talk about solving problems including the Kurdish problem, which has been a pending issue for more than ten years, Al-maliki, in both his terms, failed to achieve all these files.

Is this a direct sign that Al-maliki will not be an accepted candidate by the other parties? I mean, these are the three headlines in the next prime minister.

Mr. Falah al-naqib: Honestly it is not a case of a problem in one person, the problem is in the general policy. I mean, if we go into the general Iraqi situation, first of all, the absence of a national decision in Iraq during this stage, led to many of crises over the past years.

The first issue of the issues is that talking about the subject of the components, means that we, divided the Iraqi people. As soon as there is division of the Iraqi people into a Sunni component, and a Shiite component, and of course with all due respect to the privacy of our Kurd brother, which we always respect.

But when we were engaged in the issue of components, that led to the division of the Iraqi national decision and almost to its absence. Therefore, we noted during the past period that the solutions always had an international and regional impact on the Iraqi internal situation. This issue is regrettable.

Because these countries, whether regional or international consider their own interests, and they do not put the interests of Iraq into their consideration.

The crisis is much bigger than being related to a person.

It is bigger than being an issue related to a party, a person or a government.

The issue of Iraq is bigger than that, I mean, an issue. Therefore, solving the problem in Iraq is not related the substitution of a person, but there is a general policy, there is a country to run.

Of course, hundreds and dozens of Iraqi citizens are being killed and slaughtered every day, without having committed anything, whether they were Sunni or Shiite, without any discrimination whatsoever, and regardless of whether they are from the army or from others.

Our issue is greater than being limited to the issue of a government. Unfortunately, during the past period, and because of regional and international pressure, there was a pressure on the Sunni members to appoint a President of the House of Representatives, and a pressure was also exerted on the Kurds to appoint a President of the Republic, but the real crisis was not yet resolved!

I mean there is no strategy.

Muntaha: Your Excellency, the Minister, there must be a starting point with the availability of desire and political, as in this case in Iraq we must change and go back again and talk a national decision without dividing the components. There must be a phase to start from it, so how do you see this phase, and what should the starting point be?

Mr. Falah al-naqib: This stage for a national Iraqi independent decision on a first level. The second point is that the government has to be a national relief government accepted by all Iraqis and working on real reconciliation and conflict solution in Iraq. We have talked in the past about the topic of a national relief government and other issues.

So far, I don't see any real, practical step being made to resolve the crisis in Iraq.

I mean, now the appointment of a Speaker of Parliament and the appointment of a potential President . This issue will continue the way it did in 2010. There was a speaker of parliament and a president and the caretaker government lasted 10 months or 9 months. I can see that the solution is moving in this direction because there won't be an agreement and Al Maliki insists on staying in power.

There is an actual split or real difference between the parties of the National Alliance and we have recently seen is the State of Law or the national collation the biggest national bloc?

I think that the controversy about them will continue. Therefore, I believe that the Iraqi political situation will not proceed through this political process in that way, but there must be an Iraqi national solution, from inside the political process, and from outside the political process, or we will see that 60% of the Iraqi lands will be under the control of the government, while the other areas will remain unstable.

Muntaha: Ok, you are right Mr. Fallah, why don't we ask about persons, and about the way the government is being run, ‘and the way the state is being managed, and let’s talk about Maliki once more because reinstating stability and security in Iraq and finding a national solution to the Iraqi crisis was supposed to start since the end of war inside Iraq and start of the withdrawal of the American forces, the actual withdrawal, and not the last one.

In the two terms in which Maliki was Prime Minister, nothing happened, there is no proximity, there is no national dialogue, there is no partnership, on the contrary, half of the country is occupied by extremist terrorist organizations, how can we talk about having the same person.

Mr. Falah al-naqib: No, if the issue became in the same way whether it was Mr. Al-Maliki or someone else, the crisis would remain because there is no bloc there.

There is a regional intervention calling for Iraqi national issues, Iraqi internal issues as well as international intervention.

Therefore, these interventions... because when I spoke at the beginning about the independent Iraqi national decision that we lacked since a long time due to regional and international interventions.

However, the continuity of the current government headed by Mr. Al-Maliki will increase the complexity of the crisis and the situation on the ground is becoming more complicated day after day. We are currently witnessing...  

The more frequent it happens, the security crisis in Iraq will prolong, all that will have serious consequences on the Iraqi situation. We have seen many events and this issue will be exploited by terrorist organizations to control and thus terrorist organizations will have an impact and will affect the rest of the existing forces, whether tribal councils, military or others. ISIS will be more organized and powerful.

They have more capabilities than the rest of the organizations.

This is why Iraq will witness a real chaos that will spread to the region and neighboring countries.

This is why I feel that the current solution is go ahead no you go first I think the main solution now and I insist that there should be a government of National Rescue representing all Iraqis.

This government should be one of independent national Iraqi decision to be able to lead the country.

Muntaha: I don't see Dr. Haidar Said, I mean, before I go into some details that the minister talked about a while ago.

Let me ask a constitutional question. The National Alliance has presented his candidate, let's assume. This candidate might or might not be from the state of law or from the Dawa party or from outside the state of law. He is a candidate of national alliance.

Does it mean that other parties cannot reject this candidate and ask for another or that the candidate must be final?

Dr. Haidar Saiid: No, constitutionally speaking, these sides do not hold the right to refuse the candidate if he was the candidate of the parliamentary bloc who has the majority, as stipulated in the constitution, but it can prevent him, politically, from forming a coalition that can win the confidence in the House of Representatives. Confidence is granted with absolute majority which is fifty plus one of the members of the parliament, thus one hundred sixty five seats.

If other parties have a different position than the position of the coalition, towards a certain candidate, as it is happening in the whole world; I mean we remember what happened four years ago, when Kadima won the elections in Israel, Tzipi Livni could not form a government, and thus, Netanyahu's government was formed since that time. So, this could happen anywhere in the world and it is not necessary that the candidate of the parliamentary bloc, which have the largest number of seats, has to get the confidence of the parliament and to get the approval and acceptance of other political parties.


Muntaha: Well, I would like to ask you about what Minister Falah Al-Naqib has said a little while ago. Actually, it is his vision. He has reiterated it more than once in Panorama. He has presented this vision of a government of national salvation that have the approval and the participation of all Iraqi groups without the divisions that he does not like. Those divisions are the Iraqi components. Do not you think that their time has passed, and that there is no enough time to talk about a national salvation government?

Dr. Haidar Saiid: You know, the idea of the national salvation government has become like an idea that is related to a specific political party, which is the National Coalition which His Excellency Minister Falah belongs to.

I mean, whether we agree on the nomination or any other nomination, we certainly need to reach a government that enjoys a broad national consensus. I mean, the fear is of the idea of the national salvation government, because that government would have "ultra-constitutional" or it would be a government outside the adopted constitutional frameworks. So, many active political parties and from inside the front opposing Al-Maliki. I mean, we are still build consensus.

There are parties from inside the front opposing Al-Maliki that do not prefer the idea of the national salvation government.

I agree that the problem is really a problem of regime.

I say that any alternative to Al-maliki should work with a document that does not allow the production of another Maliki.

This regime, which produced al-Maliki, it produced Al-maliki in its [...] formula, to control the security decision, controlling the wealth, controlling the wealth in this way, attacking the independent bodies, controlling the judiciary, controlling the political institutions, there must be a detailed document against the production of another Maliki, but we also need personal characteristics.

I mean now we need, talking about the security challenge, with the risk of ISIS, that is [...] day after day and I think that its risk has exceeded the borders of Iraq.

Now ISIS is a regional threat, I mean ISIS occupied Mosul on June 9th, after that it continued to occupy Deir Al-zour as it is well known.

Now the area that it owns has become very large.

First of all we need a person that can acquire Iraqi acceptance.

Let's talk about the details.

To face ISIS in Mosul, the Kurds must be a key party, why, because the military supply line with Mosul is cut off now, as it is known.

Therefore, the main front could be formed within the borders of the Kurdistan region and therefore we need a leader that has a genuine consensus with the Kurdish leaders.

Second, the ISIS represents a threat that exceeded the Iraqi border, and thus we need a leader that would be accepted on the regional and international scene.

The ISIS can be faced through the Iraqi internal consensus, which is very important, and so is the Iraqi internal vision to face the ISIS, and fix the imbalance in the political system, which has produced the ISIS.

This is very important, but now the ISIS must be faced through a regional understanding, that would include Iran, Turkey and the Arab parties as well as the United States, and therefore we need a leader that is accepted regionally, to be able to face the ISIS.

Thus, I think that there should be some kind of balance between two things: A vision to reform the regime and the defect in the political system that started in the past years and led to the phenomenon of Al-maliki and the presence of a leader that has personal characteristics in a way that he would achieve this understanding or internal and regional acceptance.

Muntaha: If we want to mention names or figures, we are not talking or focusing on Al-maliki personally but on the position, but ultimately specific people should be sitting in this position, and this is what we are talking about.

Muntaha: I will get back to you my honorable guests, if you allow me after this short break, please stay with us.  

Muntaha: Welcome back, and we go directly to my guest from Erbil, Mr. Tareq Jawhar, the Media Consultant, in the Kurdish Parliament. Mr. Tareq, his Excellency, Mr. Fallah, just mentioned that the Sunni component is being pressured to name a chairman for the Parliament.

The Kurds are also being pressured to name a President for the republic. Is the national coalition or the Shiite component being pressured in such a manner?

Or why aren't these same parties pressuring the Coalition to name its candidate for the Prime Minister position?

Mr. Tareq Jawhar: Definitely, all the main political parties in Iraq were pressured in a special way, the main pressure came from the Iraqi street, because when they voted in the elections, they voted for building a sound political process based on the constitution, and based on the participation and agreement of all political parties in this process.

The second source of pressure comes from states that sponsor the situation in Iraq, including the regional countries and even the USA in its relationship with all political parties, which played a role to ensure the continuation of the political process and prevent the prolonging of forming the government and elect the three presidency posts.

Based on that, the Kurdish and Sunni components were keen on completing the political process within the constitutional timing, and without jeopardizing the constitutional entitlement which was imposed on all political parties after the announcement of the election results.

Now the pressure is on the Shiite component and the Shiite House in order to put an end to this and resolve this matter and this depends on the legal level and the constitutional level, and it is related to resolving the issue of the largest bloc in the parliament.

Who is the largest bloc?

Is it the state of law, which claims to be the largest bloc or is the national coalition of the Shiite House the largest bloc?

This must be resolved through the Constitution Court and by a decision and not an explanation.

Some explanations were issued by the Constitutional Court on this issue, but I think that in the coming days and after the Eid this matter will be resolved after being approached by the Parliament Speaker of the Federal Court to resolve this matter, and if this matter is resolved, the National Coalition and the Shiite House would be under legal and constitutional pressure to decide on their candidate for the elections.

After identifying the candidate, every session has a different discussion. Moreover, if Mr. Al-Maliki is replaced with an alternative, perhaps this alternative would be approved by all political parties because this also depends on a group of options, interests, and a group of principles that all blocs believe in.

Perhaps seeing this alternative person to Mr. Al-Maliki and his policies and political background of this person will play a big role in his acceptance by other parties.

Mr. Al-Maliki's substitute should be a person who is accepted by all Iraqi factions.

He should be accepted regionally and internationally and should have a level of responsibility and acts as a man of state because Iraqis lacks a man of state to deal with these problems. This what was confirmed by Dr. Haidar Said a little while ago.

Yes, of course this is what we confirm. We as the Kurdistan side in this process we hope from the brothers in the Shiite house to accelerate solving this issue so that the political process continues in its constitutional timing and that not to prolong the process, so Iraq will not have a legislative authority vacuum and the government of Mr. Al-Maliki who could not solve the problems continues.

We saw that he is now fighting terrorism and is fighting ISIS but he does not enjoy the support of all the components of the Iraqi people and he does not even enjoy regional and international support in this side because he lost the confidence of the Iraqi people.

We, the people in Kurdistan region have daily confrontations with armed terrorist groups in many Kurdish areas which are now under Kurdistan but Mr. Al-maliki is not cooperating with the Peshmerga nor providing the required military assistance.

Even on the humanitarian level, he is not fulfilling his role as a man of state and Prime Minister of a temporary government for the Iraqis that should provide support for thousands of displaced families that head to Kurdistan region, and thus support the government of Kurdistan.

On the contrary, he pursues imposing an economic blockade on the Kurdistan region and depriving the people and the staff in the region from cashing their salaries and financial dues.

Therefore, we hope to put an end to the differences and to make this Eid blessed, and that we would review in this holy month, all the mistakes previously committed by the Iraqis and we hope that after the Eid, we could see a new Iraq, an Iraq that is fulfilling a successful political process

Muntaha: God willing, but there are some people saying... this is a hope but not everybody share it with us .... 

there are pessimists that say that this is not clear, and that if the history would remember anything about Al Maliki, it would be that the outgoing Prime Minister Nouri Al-maliki in Iraq allowed the occupation of a large part of Iraq by a terrorist organization, and he could not defend his Iraqi land, even though he received American information saying that the ISIS are coming to Iraq.

The US warnings were clear, it was obvious that the USA warned Al Maliki from the near threat of the ISIS, and in this context, I would like to ask Mr. Fallah Al Naqib, Mr. Fallah are you receiving me? -yes. yes.

Mr. Tareq I will get back to you if you allow me, but I would like to ask Mr. Fallah Al-Naqib, the former Iraqi Interior Minister, my guest from Amman, the Shiite authority, the Najaf  reference was clear, when it called on to hold on to the positions, but the interpretation of the state of law around this issue stipulated that this call did not target Al-maliki but was general and talked about everyone. Do you think that a direct and clear position concerning al-maliki from the Shiite authority? As well as a direct and clear position concerning the person of al-maliki, and the name of Al-maliki from Iran, may resolve this issue conclusively?

Mr. Fallah Al-Naqib: I mean the beginning, I would like to comment on two points mentioned by Mr. Haidar honestly, of course, the first issue of the naming is not important, whether a salvation government, a reconciliation government, but what is important is the mechanism that the government will operate with, that can solve the problems in Iraq, I mean, this is more important than the naming, as for the national salvation government or a reconciliation government, or any naming, the important  thing is that it is accepted by the Iraqi people as Dr. Haidar mentioned, that it must be an acceptable figure, as for the issue of violating the constitution, honestly, I mean, we have seen many violations of the constitution during the past eight or nine years, I mean, if there was respect for the constitution, these wars wouldn't have taken place.

Mr. Haidar also mentioned that there was violation and control and complete dictatorship dominance over the country's institutions, whether affiliated with the state, or independent institutions.

Therefore we need to review the political process, there is a gap in the political process in the first place.

The issue of an interim government and it puts new pillars for the political process which satisfies all Iraqis. I think that we need to reform the constitution. It gave competences to the prime minister while they should have been given to the President with issues related to defense and foreign policy.

Muntaha: I can hear you Mr. Falah Al-Naqib. If you have finished your comment on what Dr. Haidar Said have said... 

I asked you if we should get from the authority in Najaf, as well as from Iran, more clearly that who was meant by not holding on to positions was Al-Maliki. He is the one who will end this issue in Iraq.

Your Excellency Minister... It is clear that he does not hear me. I will move to Dr. Haidar Said and ask him the same question.

I would also add, if you allow me Dr. Haidar, the issue of the interim government that could amend the constitution. I mean, the existing problems in Iraq need a long time. I mean, will an interim government be able to solve such problems?

Dr. Haidar Saiid: Well, let us start from the first question. I think that we will tackle some details. I mean, this sentence was mentioned last Friday in the Friday sermon by Sheikh Abdul Mehdi Al-Karbalai, representative of Mr. Al-sistani in Karbala, when he called on politicians to not hold on to positions.

Some media outlets, took this sentence, and printed it in the following way, In reference to Al-maliki, representative of Sistani in Karbala, calls to not hold on to the positions.

What happened was that the official website of Mr. Ali Al-sistani, the supreme authority in Najaf, reported this story from the media, I mean, if the media stated what Mr. Sistani did not announce.

The official website for Mr. Al Sistani conveyed what he was thinking, and the media means reported it.I believe ...

Muntaha: Why do you think, is he not taking the responsibility, and saying that this a direct reference to...  I mean all statements are implicit and there is nothing direct?

Dr. Haidar Saiid:  Well, Ms. Muntaha, I believe that there is a sort of ... ethics that govern the performance of the reference in Najaf, maybe it does not want to be involved directly to be involved in politics Calling for a certain political figure, or against a certain political figure.

This happened in some exceptions, but perhaps it does not want that.

I mean, let me combine between analysis and some leaks, here, I think that maybe the Najaf authority tried something else, it tried to take some steps to face Al-maliki, perhaps there were some links between the Najaf authority and Iran I think that the days that would follow the Eid, which are next week, may reveal whether Al-maliki and the state of law will remain on their position, which means that if Al Maliki would nominate himself for a third term as prime minister.

I think that the reference of Najaf might move farther in the face of Al-Maliki. Perhaps regarding some Shiite political parties of the opposition, they might resort to the same measures.

I think that next week will bear witness to developments in this regard.

When it comes to the interim government, let us be on the same page, we really need to review the rules of the political game.

This regime has been working over eleven years during crisis and it cannot continue.

We are saying that Iraq after the 9th of June is politically different.

However, let us agree on the principle without going into details.

I think that the details must be nationally agreed on.

We do not want divisive policies.

Do we resort to an interim government in two years or no?

I agree that the constitution needs some researchers and statistics about constitutional breaches in the two terms of Al-maliki over eight years, I mean, Al-maliki around one hundred violations of the constitution, but I think that we should agree on an idea that has national consensus. Whether an interim government, a government in turn, over four years or so on.

Muntaha: Can this option possibly be on the table if the coalition failed to nominate a candidate.Can this be discussed, where we can see that it is on the table?

Dr. Haidar Saiid: No, so far, I think there will be a candidate.

The international and regional parties are pressuring.

There is something very important that we must pay attention to, it is clear that the United States has sent a message, that in the end, it will require that there be a government that has national consensus in Iraq.

It sent a clear messages with regard to Prime Minister Al-maliki, and I think that the Iraqi political parties have received this message clearly, therefore it does not want to lose the support of the United States in this critical moment in the history of Iraq.

Muntaha: Yes, Your Excellency the Minister, would there be any additional repercussions other than what we are currently witnessing on the Iraqi scene,  if Al-maliki continues to adhere to the post of prime minister?

Mr. Fallah Al-Naqib: Certainly, there will be major repercussions, and these repercussions will be serious on the unity of the Iraqi territories.

There is also a specter of a civil war in the horizon, if the situation remains as it is, and if we could not come out with a result. As Iraqis, we should reach a result that will satisfy all Iraqis, and of course we are currently in a dark tunnel.

I would like to assert that as per my personal observation to the political situation in Iraq and the observation of many brothers following up on the situation, it has become very critical we wouldn't have raised these proposals during this period.

Of course the regional pressures, let's talk about the two sides: the pressure from the United States and Iran, and there was also somehow a Turkish intervention recently, not only recently, it has been there for a while actually.

The solution which was raised is the issue of the formation of the government, the President of the republic, speaker of the house, the prime minister and so on. I think that it will lead us to a result.

But Americans and we have said that before, they are always looking for alternative solutions, partial solutions, like kind of tranquilizers, It is like a physiotherapy.

The real situation is that Iran intervened.

Iran's intervention is large in Iraq and unfortunately Iran was able to take over the Iraqi national decision.

Many Iraqi decisions have come from Iran, I mean, unfortunately, in this last period, in the past eight or nine year, Iran has intervened and the Iranian decision significantly affects the Iraqi situation, in addition to the Turkish intervention that we have seen in the recent period, through the Sunni component or any other.

Unfortunately, it seems to me there is an Iranian-American-Turkish agreement on what is going on in Iraq with regard to running the political process the way it is.

Muntaha: Of the negative condition existing in Iraq. Perhaps that would be a topic that we might discuss in coming episodes.

Muntaha: Thank you very much your Excellency Minister Mr. Falah Al-Naqib. Thank you very much, Mr. Tariq Jawhar, the media adviser to the Kurdistan parliament; and Dr. Haidar Saiid, thank you very much for your participation with us.

The end of Panorama, goodbye.